I, too, often have my identity disregarded in a hurtful way. Here's a taste of it. This is from one of the many Facebook groups I've joined. This particular one is specifically NOT a safe space so I think people can live with what they've said and have no reasonable expectation of privacy.
A handful of comments disappeared as people erased what they had posted but there's enough here to provide a taste of the interaction.
CONVERSATION
Allan Hunter: I'm new here. I'm genderqueer (a term I prefer instead of transgender for myself), and more specifically a gender invert. Radical feminism was the bright spotlight that let me see gender politics and to question that "how it is" is necessarily how it has to always be. Like many trans people I experienced a discrepancy between my morphological sex and the sense of identity, the sense of which people I considered to be "like me", and ended up concluding that I was a male gal. (Unlike the stereotyped life-trajectory for transgender people, I did not then reject my morphological sex. The male-ness is no more wrong than the girl-ness). I don't like to see the schism between radical feminists and transgender people and I'm not enamored of the kind of political correctness that says "we already decided what all the right answers are, so either get on board with them or be branded an oppressor". I am ponderously serious and tend to be painfully earnest and all the in-jokes go right over my head.
Kxxx O'Axxx Oh, so TLDR you’re mentally ill, good to know!
Bxxxe Hxxxxy No need to be a dick right off the bat.
Allan Hunter: How'd you know I was also a psych rights activist & all that? (checks shirt for activist slogans)
Kxxx O'Axxx You said you were GQ
Allan Hunter Indeed. I seem to qualify. The identity predates the terminology. I came out in 1980. Didn't know WTF to call myself but I had the concept down.
Kxxx O'Axxx It’s a joke. Everyone in this group is mentally ill lmfao
Allan Hunter Kxxx O'Axxx Tolja I'm humorless and earnest
Mxx Hxxxxxxxxx How does being genderqueer affect yr daily life
Allan Hunter People "altercast" other people — they assign them identities inside their heads, have expectations etc. One of the largest social determinants of how you get altercast is whether folks sort you as guy or gal, and the way THAT tends to work is that they don't distinguish between the body architecture you've got and the basket full of generalizations about personality and behavior that we all know about — hence if you're perceived male you're also expected to exhibit masculinities. Then there's a second-tier fallback set of generalizations about exceptions to the rule, which tends to invoke sexual orientation as well as some ancillary expectations (for example, in the case of sissy-femme male folks that they wish they were masculine instead but somehow can't pull it off). How being genderqueer affects me daily is that I'm constantly perpetually slamming into those expectations and assumptions crossways and find it frustrating. And at one time (like for a decade or so from 10 to 20 years old thereabouts) internalized a deep fear that there was something WRONG about me.
Mxx Hxxxxxxxxx Can you give me an example of what "slamming into expectations and assumptions" means
Mxx Hxxxxxxxxx do people call you a f*gg*t or something?
Allan Hunter Mxx Hxxxxxxxxx Yeah. Oh definitely that one, that's common. But also let's say someone female intuits that I find her fascinating or attractive — she will often tend to automatically assume that I will be forward and pushy about it which can lead to wariness (even fear) or it can lead to her waiting for me to DO something of a sort that is no more my courtship-responsibility than it is hers. Or the same behavior pattern will be perceived differently either because I'm sissy instead of masculine or because I'm male instead of female.
Mxx Hxxxxxxxxx right....
Allan Hunter Mxx Hxxxxxxxxx No, left. See, assumptions!
Mxx Hxxxxxxxxx I don't know if women being wary of you because you look like a man is like....a material condition put on genderqueer people....
Mxxx Axxxn So would you consider yourself a GNC male/man?
Allan Hunter Don't know the term GNC. I don't consider myself to be a man of any sort. Male, yes.
Mxxx Axxxn Means gender non conforming. Like a feminine Male or a tomboy for example.
Allan Hunter Mxxx Axxxn Oh! Yeah, I used the word "sissy" for a long time, by which I mean the inverse of tomboy.
Allan Hunter If I'd known this group to be THIS lively I would have waited until a time when I could hang out for hours. I sort of can't at the moment but please don't take my disappearance as evidence of my not wanting to have these conversations. Thanks to all of you for speaking your minds!
Jxxn Mxxxxy Bahana keep posting. this is how you get terfs
Exxa Rxxxxxxn That's it I'm a TERF now
Nxxi Mcxxxxxx get castrated bb, you will feel so much better.
Mxx Hxxxxxxxxx “Cut yr balls off it’ll be great” -Mahatma Gandhi, 1908
Jxxxxxa Kxxxxn i... can’t wrap my head around the mental gymnastics and instead i’ll just bring popcorn
Allan Hunter: Clarification question for Zxxx Zxxn and Yaxxxxx XN, both of whom have said that my described experiences are akin to theirs, the experiences of a person who doesn't fully match other folks' gender expectations and stereotypes, and both of whom have proclaimed me to be a cisgender man.
(I had described myself in an intro post as genderqueer, as a male gal or male femme, and not cisgender and not a man)
I'm curious to know whether you consider there to exist SOME people whose gender does not match their sex but who are not modifying their sex to match their gender (but that I do not fall into that category); or if instead you do NOT consider that there are any such people (me or anyone else).
I am familiar with the vantage point that is often called "truscum" -- and I am in partial agreement with it. Transgender people of the male-to-female and female-to-male variety spent years raising public consciousness about their situation, and it is them that people think of when they hear the term "transgender". I can readily see why they would not appreciate diluting the meaning of the term to include people like me. Hmm, that makes it sound like my reasons for not calling myself "transgender" are all altruistic or something. They're not. From my standpoint, it is misleading to refer to myself as "trans" because if I do, everyone assumes I *have* transitioned, *will* transition, or at least *want* to transition, and that my concerns and issues probably focus on access to hormones and surgery, the politics of bathroom access, and discrimination against identifiably trans people. I don't feel included in the term "transgender", I feel ERASED by it and hence do not use it.
The two of you seem to be dividing the world into cis and trans, telling me that I'm not trans, and therefore I am cis. Is that correct? Am I misrepresenting what you're saying? (I'm not doing so on purpose).
To me that's kind of like Carlos Montoya saying "I'm a brown person. I don't identify as white" and then being told "You are not black. Therefore you are white". It sort of depends on how you define the categories, if you see what I mean.
Exxxyx Hxxxx There are certainly trans people that exist who are not modifying their sex due to one reason or another. I know transwomen who don't take HRT for medical reasons, and transwomen who don't take HRT for personal reasons. These people are still trans because they experience dysphoria of some king, social or physical.
If you do not experience dysphoria of any kind and being seen as your AGAB is not distressing you are cis. End of story. You can be gender nonconforming, you can be a cis nonbinary person too. But you cannot be transgender.
"I don't feel included in the term "transgender""
Because you are not. Nor should you be. And that's ok. You can be cis and GNC and there is nothing wrong with that.
"The two of you seem to be dividing the world into cis and trans
Because the two terms together make up the entirety of human civilization. Cis people identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. Trans people do not.
Allan Hunter I'm not transgender. I don't identify as transgender. I have not said that I am transgender. I'm not. It's something else. I'm genderqueer. I could claim a form of dysphoria but if so, it is social and has nothing to do with my morphology (although it has everything to do with people's attitudes and expectations that are based on it).
Exxxyx Hxxxx Genderqueer is often synonymous with nonbinary. I'm a nonbinary trans girl, and I am taking steps to transition so that dysphoria does not have an impact on my life. I was literally suicidal every day from the start of puberty till when I came out at 25. It severely impacts my life. I know other nonbinary individuals who are not currently medically transitioning but are still trans because they present differently than their AGAB (binding, wearing "clothes of the opposite sex", using different pronouns, etc) who would also certainly count as trans.
However there are also nonbinary cis people. For instance someone who was assigned male at birth may identify as a "demi-boy" meaning they have only a faint relation to being their AGAB. Such people are still cis because they mainly identify with their AGAB and there is nothing wrong with that. It sounds like to me you are just a cis nonbinary person and that is fine!
Allan Hunter Exxxyx Hxxxx I do use "nonbinary" although I prefer genderqueer as an umbrella term. When I want to be specific I say gender invert (gender being the opposite of the expected one for my sex in the binary two-identity system). So I guess that makes me nonbinary, you can't say you're male but a femme instead of a guy within a two-options-only (binary) system. Some genderqueer people are genderfluid, some are demigirls or demiboys, some are agender, and so on; I am not any of those other things but the way that I *am* -- gender inverted -- would certainly seem to qualify as genderqueer.
Jxxx Ryxx Allan, you appear to me to be a person who is gender-nonconforming, and there is nothing wrong with that. It does not however, indicate that you suffer from gender dysphoria (although there are some who do suffer from dysphoria and are able to find a degree of relief through a non-conformist lifestyle.)
Personally, I am willing to call you transgender if you like, but the definition of that term is really so vague today to have lost any real meaning. Many of us have re-claimed the term transsexual because the term transgender no longer has any real relevance to our experience.
Allan Hunter I'd rather NOT be referred to as transgender because I think it is misleading. I do have social-political issues ... whether you call me genderqueer or nonconforming cis or whatever is far less relevant than understanding that my life was made miserable by the mismatch between folks' expectations and how I actually was. As for presentation, I wear garments and adornments that symbolize femininity but which aren't directly anchored in being designed for a female body architecture. In other words skirts yes, brassieres no.
Jxxx Ryxx Well then it seems that we are "on the same page." I do think that you are unusual today in your desire to NOT be referred to as transgender. Many in the genderqueer/NB community seem to have similar/the same social-political issues with gender (and seemingly no gender dysphoria) yet demand to be referred to as trans.
Allan Hunter Jxxx Ryxx Yeah I've seen that too. Also a lot of transgender activists are quite welcoming and keep pronouncing me transgender whether I like it or not. I hate to seem ungrateful, I think their intentions are sincere, but unless we go back to using "transsexual" to refer to M2F and F2M, it seems kind of silly to turn "transgender" into this Big Tent thing that means every conceivable way of being gender variant, from cross-dresser to gay femme to butch dyke to god-knows-what.
Zxxx Zxxn Just to clarify Allan Hunter, what you call yourself is up to you, and I have no desire to "proclaim" you anything. I am personally skeptical of the entire notion of "genderqueer", because I think it rests on essentialized notions about gender. That's just my opinion, and not an indication that I want to change you.
Allan Hunter OK I'm cool with that. Folks who can be skeptical but not dismissive are the best listeners; they aren't going to "believe" stuff until and unless they understand it. And I don't need people who are ready to accept that I'm a pine tree if I say that I'm a pine tree, you know?
Nxxi Mcxxxxxx I don't understand what makes you not a man.
Nxxi Mcxxxxxx its ok to be a feminine man.
Nxxi Mcxxxxxx admirable even
Axyx Mxxx-Gxxxbn some of us view manhood as a state of mind and maleness as sex characteristics
Nxxi Mcxxxxxx if you live as a man, and society treats you as a man, you a man.
Axyx Mxxx-Gxxxbn No lies detected!
Mxxxxxxe Axxxx You can be cis or you can be trans. There is no gap left by the definitions of cis and trans for anyone else. Either your gender identity aligns with your birth sex or it doesn't.
You say it doesn't but you don't want to change anything about yourself, neither your appearance or your identity and you want the rest of the world to throw out everything they think, all of the helpful stereotypes that allow them to navigate the world every day so they can take you at your word that you're actually a little girl.
You're delusional.
Lxxxa Hxxxxn It’s pretty entitled to state that:::
A:
a heterosexual male uses a gay slur to ID. Aka **queer
B:
gender oppresses women and girls, so gender isn’t breaking down or dismantling the male hierarchy BY males who benefit from it.
C:
Cis is a misnomer for women and girls.
ANY woman or girl, heterosexual,
bisexual and lesbian,
reading, short hair, not wanting children, using BIRTH control, abortion, driving, wearing jeans, OR even VOTING.... etc.
Is already gender non-conforming in many societal cultures AND theological beliefs.
What exactly are YOU doing that IS gender non-conforming as a male?
What makes any man...
“Less” male?
Lxxxxe Lxxxxxxe I didn't take the time to read everything you posted cuz admitelly it's a lot, but I do think your usage of the term "genderqu**r" is offensive.
Lxxxa Hxxxxn Bored heterosexuals wanna seem WOKE by looking “Queer”.
Allan Hunter Lxxxxe Lxxxxxxe I'm offended by your offense at the use of "genderqu**r". Which I didn't use. I used "genderqueer". Get those damn asterisks out of my identityword.
Mxxxxxxe Axxxx Allan Hunter you're a straight man calling yourself a gay slur. If you get knocked the fuck out for using a slur against homosexuals it isn't oppression against men who identify as little girls. You just fucking deserve it.
Lxxxxe Lxxxxxxe That's it, I'm screenshotting
Allan Hunter Mxxxxxxe Axxxx I've been called "queer" all my life. Been queerbashed for it too. I didn't have to prove an attraction to males in order to get in on the homophobic action. I'm as entitled to reclaim slurs as you are.
Mxxxxxxe Axxxx I'm not entitled to reclaim gay slurs. I've been called the t slur my whole life. Doesn't give me the right to reclaim it. It's not mine to reclaim and the q slur isn't yours.
Allan Hunter Tell me about being called the t slur your whole life. Genuine curiosity. When I was growing up I never heard any kid call any other kid by what I presume is the word you call the t word. Could be generational; I don't think we were aware of it.
(no answer)
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